Should i get Two 10" Subs or would that be too much

[Shaheed]

Hi guys,

I have a few questions regarding the sound system in the Scion tc. I have an 05 scion tc and juts purchased the Apline m500 amp and looking to buy two Alpine type-E subs.
Do you think that is too much for a small trunk, would be good with just one Sub?

The other question i have is that i have a Stock radio in there right now. Will i need to buy a car stereo or can the install be done with the Stock radio? I will be getting the amp and subs installed at Best Buy.

Wanted to ask before i get all excited just to be disappointed. Any help would be much appreciated.

~Shaheed

[CadenceScion]

If your not looking to compete w/ the sub woofers, two 10'' sub woofers are fine. The stock deck is okay, but an after market deck will offer you more wattage output and tuning ability. I would suggest a slot port or aero port sub woofer box made from MDF.

[NVeed_TC]

If your looking for some nice boom and some sounds nothing major I agree with Cadence the 2x 10" subs will work perfectly.
However if you are looking to do SPL comps it can still be done with 2x 10" subs. You will just need bigger amps.
A friend of mine competed a bubble back civic with 3x 10s and competed respectfully.

[CadenceScion]

If your looking to hid the amps, they can be hid under the seats, but I would be careful they don't over heat. Amp's require adequate cooling, I have mine installed in the rear hatch in front of my speaker box. Further more, there is BASS and there is SPL, a basic box is plenty sufficient for bass, if you want SPL you'll need a custom box built to the tC's Spec's and also resonance and hertz. I would also suggest matching the sub woofers w/ the same amplifiers. If your unsure what RMS and wattage is needed to power your sub woofers, consult with a professional (Crutchfield).

[Shaheed]

Hello again,

I have been soaking in all the vast knowledge you have been sharing. I am def not looking to compete, this just something for me on my drive to enjoy some music and appreciate the experience.

Something that put some concern in me last night as I was reading several articles on subs, amps. I started looking up info on sub capacitor and it made me rethink putting any amps or subs in my car. The main reasons from what i understood from the article was that the amp power pull on the battery electronic system fluctuates based on the music hit beats etc. If i get a capacitor it stores up power to give the amp to prevent the fluctuating power drain on the battery. Not having one can mess up the alternator and electronic system.Some articles said it did not make a huge difference and that you would not need one for up to 250W RMS anything over 250RMS you should get one.

The amp i bought is Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine - 500W Class D Mono MOSFET Amplifier with Adjustable Crossover - MRP-M500

PRODUCT FEATURES

500W RMS (continuous) power x 1 @ 2 ohms, 14.4V, 20Hz - 20kHz, <1% THD
300W RMS (continuous) power x 1 @ 4 ohms, 14.4V, 20Hz - 20kHz, <1% THD
MOSFET power supply delivers clean power with minimal heat dispersion; thermal management control helps prevent overheating
Adjustable low-pass crossover
EQ and bass EQ controls for customizable audio; continuously adjustable gain control
Gold-plated RCA inputs; speaker level inputs
Top-mounted blue LED power/status indicator
STAR circuitry
Overcurrent, overvoltage and thermal protection
Signal-to-noise ratio: 100dBA

The speakers 2 x 10" Alpine Type-E
Handles up to 750W peak power (250W RMS) Each

Would i mess up my alternator or electronic system by getting the amp and sub installed? One of the signs they they mentioned would be that the low beams would not be as bright at night when the power is fluctuating. I just dont want to mess up my TC.

looking forward to your advice and knowledge in this area.

~Shaheed

[CadenceScion]

I would highly suggest getting a capacitor, I have one and I have had no issues w/ my electrical system. I am also pushing 3000 watts and I have two Kinetik batteries. For every 1000 watts will equal 1 farad. Get a Class D Mono Block Amp that is adequate for your sub woofers and a Class A/B Amp for your interior speakers and a capacitor. The more wattage your pushing will determine what gauge wire you'll need, most people are using 4 gauge wire or 0 gauge wire. You will also need an amp wiring kit, the most important thing is grounding everything properly and not to over power your sub woofers, so if your using two sub woofers, they will be bridged. An after market deck/head unit will increase your wattage slightly and give you more user friendly features as well as better tuning ability.

[Shaheed]

So i should return the Alpine m500 mono amp and get a Class d mono block amp?

Ok,

Looks like i will need two amps? one for the speakers and one for the amps.
I was going to have Best Buy install it for me, would they have the speaker amp as that is where i bought the m500 amp.

[Shaheed]

Several sites show the Alpine mrp-m500 to be mono block amp. Is that correct?

[CadenceScion]

If the amp you bought isn't a class D mono-block I would return it. If it is, then your fine.

[navylife59]

Mono block meaning it is a single channel. It sums the stereo channels into one output in the input section of the amplifier. Also, it is a Class D powersupply and transistor arrangement for high current output. That's great if your just looking for sub-bass (=<80Hz) and you have adequate representation of the mid-bass range (>80-250Hz) and 24db cross-over point. If you are an audiophile, you would want the more accurate and mellow sound that only a 2-ch Class A/B amp can afford. Also a better setup if you are running the OEM or front/rear speakers full-range.

Just to clarify one point that was brought up earlier, you should actually have an amp that is 10-20% more RMS watts than what the speakers are rated for. You also need to check at what VDC both are rated at. Back in those old, dark days when car stereo equipment was first being rated in watts RMS, it was 12.0VDC then it went to 13.8VDC and now being 14.4VDC. The more input voltage, the greater the output power. Unfortunately, the averaged VDC output of a vehicle alternator is somewhere between 13.4-13.8VDC with little to no load. Increase the amperage load on the alternator to a certain point and the volts will dip. That causes distortion and overheating in the amplifier. That is the sole purpose of the "stiffening" capacitors. Your battery without an alternating charging it would be 12.6VDC (no load) and 10.2VDC considered to be the minimal discharge state of a standard lead acid battery before damage is done to the lead plates in the cells.

References:
CAR BATTERIES ARE NOT 12 VOLTS
http://www.club-tc.com/forums/genera...lternator.html
http://www.club-tc.com/forums/genera...r-battery.html
A Shocking Expose: Your Car's Battery - Edmunds.com

Now that we have a grasp of the how input voltages play in a stereo system, we can get back understanding about providing more amplifier power than a rated speaker can handle. Sum it up in one word; headroom. I know, I know. You are sitting there thinking, "Man, I wished he would have just said that in the beginning!". When an amp reaches it rated RMS wattage, take note that it is at the 14.4VDC standard which your car's electrical system cannot provide at high amperage (peak) loads. When an amplifier reaches it's stated RMS value or suffers from under voltage situations, the output signal becomes exponentially distorted. Class D amplifiers perform better in this range than do Class A/B due to their more efficient power supply design but at the cost for the clarity and nuance in the music reproduction. If you are not an audiophile, this will not bother you so stay with your Class D amp. Having more amp power than speaker load provides headroom to take the speaker to it's maximum RMS Watts minimal distortion from the amplifier. An example of this was my Metra demo car back in the mid 90's. I utilized the standard Ford factory 5.25" (rated 20Watts RMS) rear speakers for rear fill in the soundstage using the 50Watts/RMS 2ch of my Class A/B Blaupunkt 4ch amp. People could not believe that those were the factory speakers. Of course, I was not pushing the full 50Watts RMS continuous into them as I adjusted the gain to the clipping point before max volume. Just food for thought.

[CadenceScion]

Here's my current audio set up:

I.C.E:

6'' Cadence 2-Way Component Speaker System (100 Watt RMS Power) (200 Watt Power Handling) (1'' Silk Dome Tweeter w/ Neo Magnent) (www.cadencestore.com) - $275.00

JVC Double-DIN Head Unit with 7'' Touch Screen (KW-AVX810) (JVC Mobile 2011) - $700.00

Concept Audio 7'' Leather Wrapped Head Rest Monitors (Mobile Electronics) - $175.00/ea.

T-View 10.2'' LCD Sun Visor Monitors (T102SV-BK) (tview index) - $175.00/ea.

Three 7'' PowerAcoustik Monitors Flushed into Rear Hatch (Untitled Document) - $140.00/ea.

4'' Lanzar VXSeries Co-Axial's (Lanzar Car Audio)

2 Soundstream Video Amplifiers

Cadence Daytona Competition 12'' SPL Subwoofer (DCX12-1500) Rms: 1500/Peak: 3000 (www.cadencestore.com) - $1,200.00

Cadence ZRS-9004 Class A/B 4 Channel High Power Stereo Amplifier 4x90 Watts @ 4 Ohm (www.cadencestore.com)

Cadence ZRS-8000D Class-D Mono Block Amplifier 1 Ohm Rms Power: 1x2250 Watts, Peak Power: 1x4500 Watts (www.cadencestore.com)

Kinetik HC600 Power Cell w/ a Custom Built/Carpeted Enclosure and Acrylic Window (Kinetik High Current Power Cells) - $200.00

Custom Built/Carpeted MDF SPL Speaker Box w/ 3/4'' Acrylic Window and 4'' Aeroport

1/24 Scale Scion tC Dicast Model (Jada Toys Option D) Inside Speaker Box/Behind Acrylic Window (Your Page Title)

PowerAcoustik 5 Farad Capasitor w/ a Custom Built/Carpeted Enclosure (Untitled Document) - $150.00

Scosche 0 Gauge Wiring (Welcome to Scosche Industries)

Apple Ipod Nano 8Gig (eBay | Electronics, Cars, Clothing, Collectibles and More Online Shopping)

Magellan Roadmate 2000 GPS/Navigation System - $200.00 (eBay | Electronics, Cars, Clothing, Collectibles and More Online Shopping)

[navylife59]

OK, but where is the picts of the engine bay and the 4 alternators to run all that? Wait, you would not happen to have one of those fuel cells left over from the Space Shuttle Program do you? I hear that Shuttle parts are popping up for sale already. Great install. Clean and straightforward but I do have one suggestion for show points. That drywall screw holding up the panel for the the battery sticks out. Yeah, I know that I am a real critical observer. My Shipmates at my Squadron hate it when I come back from Missions as I write up a bunch of gripes (trouble tickets). Anyway, you could easily hide it with a small piece of carpet fuzz and a glue stick. Magnetic keepers would be even better as you could easily have access to battery. If you have done your install full show quality, you might can score a few points by showing the judges the "behind the scenes" look at your install. That is how it was back in the day as the judges knew that if you pulled a panel or lifted the carpet on 96% of the vehicles on display, it would be a jumbled mess with out any thought to an orderly and methodic install.

Do you have any cameras hooked up to display on your monitors? I plan on having a camera on the front below the bumper so I can gauge speed bumps and these nasty curbs here in New Orleans. A rear camera for B/U and to see the guy's face as I blow past him.

[CadenceScion]

I have no camera, nor have I thought of getting one. Although I can see your point well on hiding the screws, I will consider that idea, thanks Scott!

[navylife59]

No problem. I still have a few tricks up my sleeves. I sure miss those old days. Everything had not already been done so you could really build some one-off stuff. Nowadays, you have to fairly far into the exotic to wow people.

[Shaheed]

Man that is sweet looking!!! Wow!

[navylife59]

Ya, I am a bit envious of Cadence's ride.

[Shaheed]

You and I both! However you have some good stuff going on as well I believe. :-)