No-Weld o2 Sensor Mount

[NeophyteX]

Among the many hours spent surfing the web I happened across this AEM No-Weld O2 Sensor Mount 2.25-2.5 inch exhaust , I'm curious if that is really a win win situation... or if by not welding a bung I am losing out on something(ie. slight exhaust leak, slippage, etc...) Opinions??

[navylife59]

In my professional opinion, I would say no to this product. While it does hold it's PSI as demonstrated in the video, it does not account for heat expansion, heat fatigue, corrosion or differences in pipe OD which can vary greatly due to wall thickness. All of which will eventually led to leakage. The O2 sensor samples the exhaust gas stream while referencing the ambient air, either at the sensor body or at the connector plug on the harness. Any introduction of ambient air to the exhaust gas stream will skew the resulting data giving inaccurate feedback to the ECM.

http://www.club-tc.com/forums/tc-kno...html#post35715
Look at the first pic in this post to see where the ambient air sampling port is.

[NeophyteX]

Just the man I was hoping to hear from
Thank you for backing up some of my doubts I appreciate the professional opinion. Though after a bit more searching recently I think I may have found a way to circumvent having to weld a bung into the downpipe by buying a new one that has the spot for the sensor.
Navy would I be ok purchasing this Invidia Toyota SCION tC DOWN-PIPE 05-UP HS05STCDPP and having a high flow cat welded into it to stay legal?

I'm trying to get rid of the pesky CEL that I bought into when I purchased my tC(which I love nonetheless) and stay legal as far as the hydrocarbon tests go as this is my daily driver. I have a Magnaflow catback which I plan on putting a second resonator on the midpipe(not leaving me room for a cat there?) I'm making a few assumptions here as I am surely no expert, do I seem to be on the right track to legal+no cel?

[navylife59]

Sorry for the lengthy delay, I am overseas with the military.

If you are going to go with an aftermarket header, I suggest the WeaponR which comes with it's own s-pipe (downpipe). The OEM and all aftermarket s-pipes come with just one O2 bung. At one time, companies like the old ZPI in the beginning that made their own parts, you could request and second bung when you ordered it. You won't be able to put a cat there as there is absolutely no room for it in the car. The OEM mid-pipe has a secondary cat and a resonator in it.
http://www.club-tc.com/forums/tc-kno...omponents.html

This CEL that you speak of is the MIL in your Combination Gauge illuminating? Tell me more about this please.

http://www.club-tc.com/forums/tc-kno...nsors-mil.html

[NeophyteX]

Ah I guess I should have posted what more I have come across.

To start I understand, from reading all over these forums I know for you to post is anything but easy. Which I also have respect for as my brother and my uncle are both in the Navy as well

In my searching I actually read completely through both of those pages you posted and decided on a completely different course of action while stumbling on to another confusing thing.

Funny thing, I actually planned on buying the Weapon R headers because it does come with an s-pipe. Was also going to send them off to Jet Hot before I put them on Now due to my initial thoughts on my CEL(Check Engine Light or as you refer to MIL) I had followed your DIY instructions with the anti-foulers only to find the shady shop my friend had install his exhaust at put an s-pipe on the car with no sensor. It wasn't hanging from the port or anything either it was just gone.

So my plans from here are, Weapon R headers with s-pipe, put the replacement sensor I already have on, purchase these
Magnaflow 2.25 or 2.5 inch Round 4 inch Muffler/Resonator
Magna Flow 94300 Series Universal Catalytic Converters (High-Flow, Oval) - XXXMAG94300SERIES
which I plan to weld both onto my magnaflow mid-pipe(replacing the old cat). Also this is an image that greatly helped me understand my exhaust in relation to the stock exhaust(as I never saw it)


Now then, the weird part. I made an assumption(mistake 1) that my MIL was related to Bank1Sensor2 as my friend told me it showed up after he put the headers. My attempt to fix that was what led to the discovery of the no sensor but the thing is, I had a friend who has a scanner check my code and it had nothing to do with that sensor. P0171 Sytem Too Lean (Bank1) is the only code I have. It shows up immediately upon starting and the freeze frame data shows it set it off at apprx 700rpm so right at idle. As of now, I have done a visual inspection of my weapon r short ram and everything seems to be attached well. I have cleaned my MAF sensor(very very carefully with special MAF cleaner) in addition to cleaning my air filter(and making sure that it's not too far on the tube) while even cleaning my throttle body. Oddly enough the code did not come on right away after cleaning all of this though it still did after one trip. I plan having the system smoke tested to see if there are any leaks though I really am at a loss. What somewhat confused me also is that I do 'not' have a Bank1Sensor2 code after putting the sensor on, I had a bung welded to the s-pipe and placed the sensor 'without' the anti-foulers on the pipe it oddly.. no extra code.

Sorry for writing you a miniature novel, I just like to give detail where I think it may help. I appreciate the time Scott( see I do read alot, saw your name somewhere ) So what do you think of my current plan?

[navylife59]

Wow, you came up with a better exhaust picture that I came up with! I mainly pull my data from the Toyo/Scion repair manuals. That is why I state things as MIL(CEL), ECM(ECU), Bank1Sensor1(wideband), Bank1Sensor2(narrowband), s-pipe(downpipe), Primary TWC(main cat), Secondary TWC(secondary cat), etc.

Thanks for the confidence and show of support. My career as a Naval Aircrewman takes me all over the world. I don't forwardly Deploy like on a ship or other types of Squadrons. I am primarily in Stationed in New Orleans but take individual missions and extended Detachments (which I am on right now) so I do have some time back home. Unfortunately, the lil Misses has me doing so much that I barely get time to wash my car, let alone do the mods that I need to do.

The P-code that you were getting is exactly related to your Bank1Sensor2 missing. This sensor serves as a backup for the primary Bank1Sensor1 in the header and provides for fine tuning the motor for efficiency, as well as, emissions. The car, as you know, can run without it. It just isn't on it's A-Game. Your car will be happy that you re-installed it. Sometimes you can run an aftermarket header with the stock s-pipe and this P-code won't pop. In those cases, it can pop a little bit later. There are many variables involved. Changing the s-pipe in this case will cause the P-code to pop. Read this Tech Article to understand more on why and when a MIL is caused. http://www.club-tc.com/forums/tc-kno...cause-mil.html

You are right ontop of having a great sounding exhaust. The resonator is key to the sound you want so you should call MagnaFlow and have them help you pick the right sized one. The JetHot coating is an excellent idea. Well, time to go fly another mission.

[NeophyteX]

Thanks for the reassurance I was pretty confident that my exhaust was on it's way to sounding good. I understand the difficulty of things like working on a car while your significant other has other things in mind for you as well, all too well haha.

My only wonder now though is the remaining MIL. I have had the Bank1Sensor2 installed for a little while now and have had my DTC's cleared multiple times(I have a friend with a nice OBD II scanner) with it inevitably coming back on each time. Is the code that your DIY with the anti-foulers fix P0171 like I have?

Again just a run down of my situation
-Headers(cleaned the afr)
-S-pipe(with a brand new narrowband o2)
-Full catback exhaust(attached to OEM Secondary TWC)
-SRI(cleaned the MAF sensor & filter)
*Also cleaned my throttle body and did a visual inspection for intake leaks which I found none

The troublesome P0171 System Too Lean code still illuminates my MIL, I currently have 'not' put the antifouler setup on where my narrowband is as I thought it was supposed to fix a code different from the one I'm getting. As far as fixing this MIL I was going to have my intake system smoke tested to check for leaks and look into other issues that can legitimately cause the code.

My question though, what code exactly does the DIY you describe with the anti-foulers normally work around?

[navylife59]

Well, the Navy is sunk! I just found out. Those knuckleheads were crazy enough to select me for E-6. Hope your family members are close to retirement. Oh well, you get what you pay for and the Navy got me on the cheap.

The DIY anti-fouler trick will definitely repair your situation. All the other work that you had listed that you did was not for naught so it was not a total loss. Doesn't hurt and you did it with the right products. Just follow my instructions, being very careful with the anti-seize, and your problem should go away.

[NeophyteX]

Bringing this thread back to life for a follow-up in case someone comes across it with a similar situation... It obviously has been quite a while since I originally posted this thread, and I hadn't resolved the original problem until now.

So to begin.. after numerous unsuccessful attempts at eliminating my check engine light I ended up getting a bluetooth OBDII port reader(which has worked out wonderfully btw!), I figured if I was going to drive around with the light illuminated constantly I should atleast have a way of frequently checking my codes to make sure another one wouldn't pop up. This lovely reader allowed me to see my Air/Fuel Ratio in real time or map it out/log it.

P0171 is directly related to the A/F Ratio in our engines meaning that the ECU(ECM) was outside of its safe range of adjustment for the amount of Air to the amount of Fuel going into the cylinders. Now wouldn't you know it, of the two imbalances, running rich or running lean, running lean is much riskier and more problematic of the two and what I was dealing with for quite a while. I had numerous times watched my A/F Ratio and saw that the adjustments by the ECU(ECM) were only just barely outside the "safe" range at certain points.. which explained why I could at times go maybe a day or two without throwing a light after reset. In the end after everything I had done to eliminate the light I ended up decided I would eventually just go the forced induction/stand alone route and not have to worry about it at all anymore

As most people know though... a forced induction set up can cost a decent amount, so it wasn't an immediate solution for me. So up til now I had just stuck with what I had, until a friend of mine who is a real car guru expressed his dislike of the SRI that was under my hood. He pointed out the lack of a mount where there should have been one and that the pipe seemed unusually large for an engine of my power. Sure enough... I come to find out that it wasn't a Weapon R - SRI like my 'friend' had said it was.. in fact I couldn't find a place anywhere online that appeared to sell the intake that was in there.

THE SOLUTION: In the end, I figured I would consider what my car guru friend and decided to swap out the intake with an Injen SRI.. and to my astonishment, doing so also got rid of my CEL!! As an additional point.. I have had the DIY Anti-Fouler setup on this whole time, there is a chance that without it even the Injen SRI may throw a code.. But this issue has been solved, I have been driving for over 2 weeks now and have not thrown a code and can visibly see the difference in the A/F adjustments done by the ECU.

Now I can just look forward to FI = )

P.S.: If you read this whole thing... sorry, I'm still a bit excited and writing a lot due to it heh