supercharger helppp please

[navylife59]

Yes that is the unit that I am talking about. I had called UniChip about this and asked them what functions that it can optimize over other piggybacks (WOT). Honestly, I don't remember what they told me. I did discuss with them the learning aspect of our ECM to take back over. You will have to call them and talk to their Tech department. Sorry, I am overseas.

The difference between your AFC and the FIC, I believe, maybe that the AFC does not control ignition timing and the FIC does. It does not matter as the ECM will not allow ignition timing changes, at least, through a straightforward approach. You can change ignition timing all day long with the Greddy Ultimate and it does not alter a thing. Supposedly, this tuner in Puerto Rico, was able to go a back door route by setting up other tables (A/FR. h2o temp, etc) to control ignition to a slight degree. This has not been proven.

Jay, you are at the point where you need to start modifying more to increase performance. I suggest that you do get retuned once those mods are in place. If you find the SAFC not capable of tuning more, then I would suggest that you contact UniChip and discuss, in earnest, what their product can do better than the other guys. It may end up just being another piggyback that gives good gains when installed, but looses out to the mastermind ECM once driven around a few days.

The TRD injectors are 440cc. Deatschwerks makes a PNP 550cc injector if your tuning session shows your 440cc injectors to be saturated (above 80%).

[StreetBrawler89]

I think with the S/C and the increased PSI the Piggyback will take over, its my understanding that it will override the OEM ECU. Is it possible that your thinking of the "Superchip" a variation of which is found here Scion TC Performance Chips - Amazing Scion TC Chips

?

[navylife59]

Unfortunately the ECM will retain full control after the tuning session once it relearns. The P/B will then only be able to affect WOT.

[Jay666]

Well, I typed up a huge response and lost it. Wow, that's frustrating. So, I'll start over...

First off, I apologize in advance for the length of this response, but this is a pretty big issue for me, and involves a lot of money and/or discussions that I feel can help all TC owners on this site. I have not yet read your PM, so if I cover everything in this response I apologize in advance Navy.

Yeah, that is the chip (Unichip) I was thinking of. I have not called Unichip directly, however after doing a ton of research and speaking to my shop and several other technicians, yes, that is exactly what I am hearing. That it will give you an immediate gain, but nothing long term as the ECU will learn around it.

In fact, this seems to be a recurring thing I am learning. I had a long conversation with one particular person at AEM over the phone. He said that the Toyota ECU's are incredibly smart and that the VVTI systems are very advanced. More on that in a second. (They remembered me from when I was having problems with my AEM FIC system on the TC).

You are correct. The Apexi AFC system I have is an Air/Fuel flow control system. Although, my system (Apexi) DOES have an very cool "Vtech control feature" that will allow you to control valve timing, this option was turned off by the shop that did my tuning (the same shop that suggested I leave the stock 4 psi for now) because, similarly to what you stated, the Toyota ECM is just too darn smart, and it cannot be altered at this time.

I was also in the market for going to performance ignition wires, etc last week. Turns out, there are none produced for the TC. Turns out the closest thing available was that AEM offered to custom build me one for around $800.00 Turns out, they actually recommended that I don't even do that. Turns out, the reason that was explained to me was very interesting, and now, a lot of this (hang with me here, this is all related...), which I did not think was related, is ALL very much related.

What was explained to me by the technician at AEM is a lot of what you are saying, plus some. Again, remember earlier that I said he actually remembered my vehicle from when my tuner called AEM about a year ago asking them (AEM) why the AEM FIC was causing such problems with my ECU, car running like crap, FIC fighting with my ECU, etc...

Basically what he told me was that the Toyota ECU is too smart for all of the plug n play type of chip, ignition, valve timing, power enhancing, etc... devices that the rest of the mod world has grown accustom to with their cars. Many of them out there either do nothing, very little, or get very, very tricky with the Toyota ECM. With the Toyota ECM and VVTI engines, we have to get out of the same frame of mind that the rest of the Honda, Mitsubishi, etc guys are in. It's a completely different and new world.

He basically said, "think of it this way. When the Honda V-tech engine was introduced, it was incredibly advanced. It took about 10 years before the after market world figured out and caught up with it. It's the same with the Toyota VVTI engines, except they are even MORE advanced. There's just nothing out there that is really going to change what Toyota has designed it for, and quite honestly, the VVTI system is so smart and so advanced, you are probably better off just letting it do its thing for now anyways". I have to be inclined to believe this fellow at AEM. Why would he be honest enough to tell me this is why their FIC system may not a "perfect scenario" for my TC. Why would he offer to custom build an ignition system for me for $800.00 and then turn around and explain why it may not be the best idea? Plus, it all ties together with everything you have said Navy, and everything else I have learned recently on top of that.

You're correct, I am at the point where I may need to start modding more in order to increase performance. I'm very happy with the car where I've gotten it with my bolt on mods (to 210 WHP, stock PSI) in the last 10 months, but it's on my mind CONSTANTLY. Based on what you have told me, what AEM has told me and several others, what I have decided is that I am going to switch from SC to turbo in the relative future, and have the car completely re-tuned at that point, which will include bumping up to 10-11 psi. There is not much point in re-tuning my car with the SC currently to 10 psi when I have the "itch to switch" as I call it (can I coin that phrase officially?). I'd have to re-tune, then re-tune again soon anyways.

I had a very long conversation with my tuner after reading you messages Navy, and after talking to the technician AEM. I have come to decide that short term, I am leaving ignition, timing, SC and piggy-back as is. I am just changing to high performance Silverstone spark plugs (as suggested by AEM) and letting the Toyota ignition and valve timing do its thing. I'm lightening up the car a bit, getting the Kaminari body kit (already ordered and paid for) and having a performance brake kit built for front and back by Wilwood (already ordered as well). I will also add on LSD, performance clutch and LW flywheel by end of summer. Lastly, I will switch to turbo and have the car re-tuned to 10-11 psi and see how the Apexi AFC handles that situation. I'll box up the SC and store it away. Possibly all this by the end of summer. Some of this is already in process as I am typing. I do not screw around LOL.

Long term, I will lighten up the car even more, have a complete engine re-build (got an estimate of a min 9-10 grand), have a custom gear ration built (hopefully... this is a new discussion with my mechanic) pull the old SC out of retirement, and put the SC on the engine WITH the turbo. I have not personally seen or heard much about TC's with a SC/turbo dual set up, but he said he has, and that he is confident he can do this when I do an engine re-build. Complete with a massive re-tune. Change piggy back if necessary to whatever is appropriate. Possibly by then (we're talking a few years), there will be more on the market for Toyota ECU's and VVTI systems as well. Hopefully.

Navy, I've said it before, but thanx so much for your help. I spend endless hours and gobs and gobs of money on my TC. This has been a fun and insightful (and sometimes frustrating) learning experience. Hopefully, others can learn from our mistakes and adventures. The TC has an incredible platform that is lead by a very advanced and intelligent ECU and valve timing system. We just have to keep learning and plugging away at it, as a lot of this is un-charted territory compared to other platforms (Honda, etc...)

[navylife59]

This is indeed a topic that needs to be openly discussed and brought to light, therefore, take as long as you need to right. However, I will abbreviate a few points.
[LIST][*]Several times you have stated the stock PSI at 4PSI for the TRD S/C. It is actually 7PSI. Is this what you are getting on your boost gauge? Belt slip or boost leak would be representative of this difference. Either case, you will be making alot less power than you should be but 210WHP is where abouts your setup would be, maybe up to 220WHP with initial tune. Your boost gauge could also be inaccurate.[LIST][*]I received an email response from UniChip. It is exactly as expected, prone to the overbearing nature of the ECM like all other piggy-backs.[LIST]VTEC is entirely different implementation of variable valve technology so that feature on any controller will not work. VTEC is has a crossover point to engage the altered timing. VVT-i is more of a continuously variable timing[*][LIST][*]You can safely run up to 10PSI with the 440cc (TRD) injectors and the TRD maps. Any exhaust setup from 2.25- 2.50" would be fine, save for a full open exhaust. The only problem comes from running an aftermarket (modified) SRI/CAI. This changes the airflow read across the MAF sensor which puts it out of the range specified by the TRD maps. The result will cause the motor to run lean and loose power. There are some high-tech devices like a fine mesh screen that slow that flow up slightly.[LIST][*]There is absolutely no need for upgraded ignition wires/cables. All modern Toyotas employ coil-on-plug technology that gives each cylinder it's own coilpack. There are just 4 small wire leads that go from the ECM to control spark. Read my article on Bad Nology wires. This is also why adding a capacitive spark module from AEM, MSD, etc. does not work unless you are going complete standalone. Okada Projects introduced an upgrade coilpack known as Plasma Direct. It is exactly the same as the OEM Toyota but with different internals. Unless you are high boosted or high revving, you won't need them. The OEMs do just fine.

[Jay666]

Yes, you are correct Navy, my bad. It is currently tuned to stock 7 PSI, which I am getting 210 WHP from. I am not sure how or why I keep getting 4 PSI stuck in my head. I have read a lot of books (some of which were a few that you recommended to me LOL) and my brain became a bit overloaded with figures and information around the time I started all this, so that's probably why I have a false number stuck in my head. But yes, I am able to get up to 7 PSI on my boost gage without a problem.

(Biggest noticable difference since all these mods were done last summer was my excelleration. Wow, what a difference. I get a lot of cars challenging me on the street, and my car is a bit of a sleeper externally, so I usually surprise people).

That is what I learned about the Unichip as well. At least when it comes to application on our cars. I am steering clear of it. I have read too many customer testimonies of TC owners where the chip worked great for a few days, until the ECU learned around it. I do believe you have mentioned once in the past that there is one well known professional driver out there (can't recall the name) who has supposedly figured out how to map around this. To the point of the technician at AEM, it will take years before this kind of information (which is very slowly figured out by gear heads and professionals) becomes more public knowledge and we can reap the rewards as consumers.

Other than that, everything else you have said confirms what I have learned, which is both assuring and helpful to know. That is some great information. I hope other people can learn from this as well and avoid some of the learning process the rest of us have already tread through. The TC is a great format. Some of these mod's (like the coils or changing VVTI timing) are not even necessary, but not everyone in the mod industry knows that, and it took me some time and headache to learn this myself. I just assumed as a newbie that everything out there that was either manfactured and advertised for our cars, or was available for comperable cars by other manufacturers was also available for the TC. NOT TRUE AT ALL.

Give it some time, and maybe some of this stuff can be modified, or simple plug n play mods like the Unichip will actually be useful to us. But, for now, I can settle for it being what it is without it. Which is a smart and advanced ECU and valve timing, direct coil engine that works fine the way it is.

Like I said before, I plan on waiting to re-tune to higher PSI when I switch to turbo, which will hopefully be by the end of summer.

[navylife59]

Just installed a new Goodyear Gatorback belt part# 4070880. The 88.0" inside size is due to my 55mm S/C pulley and my 20% overdriven alternator pulley. I might be able to squeeze on an 87.2" belt which is the next smaller size, but will run this belt for a while. So far, there is no sign of squeal from belt slip above 5K RPM. Free revving the motor gives a slight chirp so there still is a small amount of slip but that would not been seen with the motor under torque from actually being in gear. I have another idea that I am going to pursue if the Gatorback can't handle it. My min problem still is the OEM clutch that just can't handle the load anymore.