supercharger helppp please

[Mattwahlgren]

Hey guys...i know ive been asking alot and prob already have the anwsers but please respond to this.....i actually just bought a supercharger for my 09 tc...now...what do i do to get the most out of it....reflash ecu at dealer? sell my Injen air intake? but a weapon r one?....however on that note the intake is if not takes up lesss space then the trd one so is anyone 100% sure it wont fit? and also what about a pulley..whats the deal with the warrenty and these keys...and what about a e management system...last one i promise can i get a turbo timer?

[Redneck4csa]

The Injen is not compatable with the supercharger. As of right now, the only intake made specifically for the TRD supercharger is the Weapon-R. You can get different pulleys which will create more boost. If you do go with pulleys, some kind of piggyback is definitely required. Scion should honor the supercharger under warranty. But if I'm not mistaken, only if it is installed by the dealer. You can get a turbo timer, it will help extend the life of the motor and supercharger.

[Mattwahlgren]

i bow down to you in thanks...thank you man ne suggestions on what type of e manage? and what about the pulley size?

[Redneck4csa]

As far as a piggy-back, I would go with Greddy Ultimate. It seems to have alot more features vs. the blue. I'd stick with a normal NST 9.5 psi pulley. That's what Navy is running on his, I believe. I haven't had a chance to talk to him in a while.

[Mattwahlgren]

alright sounds good..i can not wait till i get all this put in

[SquallLHeart]

any type of modifications to the factory install will probably warrant the dealership not to honor the warranty if something goes wrong.

the ecu "reflash" will change the fuel mapping to accommodate for the trd supercharger, but yes, adding a pulley and such will require you to re-tune the vehicle further using a piggyback system.

(and if something goes wrong, warranty? yeah.. with a pulley? don't expect anything, and don't think you can cheat the system either by trying to re-install your stock pulley before you bring it in. it won't work)

turbo timer isn't needed, but if you want one, there's nothing stopping you..
can you get one? yeah.

[Mattwahlgren]

so i cant just get the pulley then reflash it?

[Redneck4csa]

As soon as you get the supercharger installed, you will need to go to the dealer so that they can reflash the ECU. Once you install the pulley, you will need to have a piggy-back in place to tune yourself.

[Mattwahlgren]

oh alright so you need to have e manage with pulley?

[Redneck4csa]

Yes, Sir. The factory reflash is set up for 7 psi which is what the supercharger puts out normally. A pulley can push it up to 9.5 psi. The ECU doesn't recognize what's going on and just freaks out.

[Mattwahlgren]

okay thanks a bunch....another ? i have is will the weapon r intake fit a 2009 scion tc supercharged? because they make a supercharged for like 06 down and then they make a 07 up..but for non supercharged? ne one kno first hand

[navylife59]

You will need to contact Chris over there at WR and find out if they are offering for 07-up. Weapon*R Racing Development
I have asked a few times but got no response from them.

[Mattwahlgren]

okay ill give them a go and ill get back to you

[Jay666]

As far as a piggy-back, I would go with Greddy Ultimate. It seems to have alot more features vs. the blue. I'd stick with a normal NST 9.5 psi pulley. That's what Navy is running on his, I believe. I haven't had a chance to talk to him in a while.

Although not a really a "piggy back" by definition I guess (doesn't piggy back the current system but rather is programmed to run your air fuel control on its own), I have the Apexi S-AFC Neo and love it. Works awesomely. I think they are difficult to get though. Always on back order. Ended up paying like double the price on E-bay to get an un-opened one from some kid because the MFG had them on back order for so damn long. Many, many bids were on it so I assume people were experiencing the same back order situation I was LOL.

Great system though.

Prior to that, I tired the AEM fuel ignition control piggy back for a couple months and hated it. Since swithcing, very happy. But, like redneck said, I have also heard the Greddy Ultimate is awesome too.

[navylife59]

Well, let me update you on the Greedy, huh, I mean Greddy Ultimate in my car. Since day one, it has never lived up to my expectations. Initially installed with all values set to null, the OEM ECM should have not been effected whatsoever. Not the case as the car had rough idle and bogged off the line when launched hard. Tuned to 228.4WHP on 93 Octane pump gas @ 9.5PSI and 440cc injectors, the car always seemed to run better with 89 Octane. Car still had a rough idle and should have maid slightly more power. Over a year ago, I took the car to Kenny Tran at Jotech and had them install 550cc injectors, 15lbs pulley and tune. The car lost power horribly. I was back down in the 190's WHP! The best after several days of head scratching was 217WHP. Reset the ECM and the car runs hard, but as soon as the ECM relearns, the timing pulls back, power lacks, and the exhaust tone sounds like arse.

Being fed up with this, I put the car into storage. Late Fall, I brought her back to New Orleans. I was determined to find the issue with the Greddy. Being that their interface software was not compatible with my new Windows Vista laptop, I decided to unplug and run just my OEM ECM with the TRD map by itself. Bam! Just like that, my idle smoothed out to near stock. The power, man the power! I estimate it at 260WHP average. So much power that an LSD and new clutch upgrade is now a must. I am only running the ECM with the TRD map and absolutely no intercooling (mechanical or chemical) whatsoever. When the temp is 50F or less outside and I have quality gas (93), it feels more close to 270WHP. When it is warmer or bad quality gas, the power seems to go down to about 250WHP. I know my car better than you know your own birthday, so I can tell the difference. Yes, it is time for my water/meth injection system to be installed.

[Jay666]

I have water/meth injection system as well. Had the AEM system installed when I had my intercooler installed at the end of last summer.

With the Apexi Neo AFC unit I have, and after the re-flash etc, I am at 210 WHP on the dyno. Pretty happy with that. (Also have intercooler like I said and TRD S/C).

Prior to switching to the Apexi AFC unit, I was having all kinds of problems when the AEM piggyback was on there. But, as was discovered by the mechanic I swiched to, that was more because the prior mechanic just tried re-tuning the car and no re-flash was done. The ECU was learning around the tune and running like complete garbage. Bogging out when excellerating, crappy low bogging out idol, etc... Similar to your story navy, and if you recall you helped me determine the root cause was the re-flash. Can't be a cooincidence that the description of your car running bad sound so similar to mine and both issues were fixed when the car was re-flased to the TRD map. These cars' ECU's are friggin SMART.

Sure enough, after the re-flash and running on the factory setting, the car ran GREAT and dyno'd at 210. Prio to, even with the S/C, it was only running at like 175 WITH the SC. That was because of the crappy tuning and the ECU fighting it.

So, I guess my statement about the AEM piggyback and how I was unhappy with it can probably be more attessted to the lack of re-flash and the bad tune. However, my new tuner guy did suggest that the Apexi Neo would be a better system for me than the AEM piggy back, so I trusted him and I have been happy with it.

Bottom line, yes, re-flash TRD map. And thank you Navy for helping me through that last year. What a mess. I wasted several thousand dollars on that whole ordeal.

Others can learn from our mistakes.

[navylife59]

What PSI did you dyno at? I thought you was running a 9-10 pound pulley. I made 228.4WHP @ 9 lbs boost with the TRD reflash and a tune on the Greddy Ultimate.
BTW. I have always had the TRD reflash on my ECM. Although related to the ECM/piggyback conflict, mine was not directly related to not having the TRD reflash. To clear up one more detail, I never fully installed my h2o/meth system so my power figures are w/o the benefits of it. That is why I believe you should be making more power if you are not on the stock 7lbs pulley. If you are, then 210WHP would be about right for a safe tune.

[Jay666]

I am running the LW pulleys, yes.

Not sure if you recall in a previous conversation, but the shop that my guy took the car to when they did the tune and the dyno suggested not changing the PSI from stock until/if I wanted to do a bottom end engine re-build. I received much backlash from other sites for going this route, and I can see that you obviously tuned your car to a higher PSI as well.

But, he said that I "could" technically have it tuned to 8-10 PSI (or whatever it was exactly, I forget), but that I MAY run the risk of blowing a gasket, etc... He said it may never happen, or it could happen next week. That's a risk. He recommended that I keep it at stock PSI until I do a re-build, which I plan on doing one day. I opted to go this route to be on the safe side.

Would you disagree or recommend me having it re-tuned? I most certainly can. He did say that if I WERE to do this, I would have to buy a new ECU or something like that...

I forget the details of how he was exlaining that to me. Somethng to do with the TRD re-flash and the ECU and changing the PSI... Maybe you can explain that better to me.

Whatever YOU recommend. I trust you more than anyone with this s%$& LOL. It's only money. I can't take it with me. May as well spend it on the TC.

[navylife59]

Hey, I like your philosophy! Thanks for the confidence in me. I obviously speak from direct experience on this issue. Your Tuner is not wrong in his general assertion that increasing PSI may or may not blow your headgasket. So far, that has not been the case for anyone that I know of though I am sure that someone has exploring the boundaries of the OEM. Severe engine knock can drastically increase cylinder pressures beyond the limits.

TRD/Toyota, however, would not have outfitted a S/C that is on the envelope of handling the increased cylinder pressures of F/I @ 7PSI. It is generally accepted that you can increase the to 9PSI on 89 Octane w/o the need for a piggyback nor upgrades to the fuel system. You can increase up to 10PSI 91+ (better to have 93) Octane, but will be on the edge of needing a piggyback. Beyond 10PSI will require a piggyback and possibly time to increase to 550cc injectors and Walbro 255lph fuel pump. Anything over 10PSI should also have some sort of intercooling. My intercooling is accomplished by excess fuel from the larger injectors not being known by the ECM.

Note: It is to be understood that this is not set in stone due to variances between engines/fuel quality/environment.

Note: Piggyback controllers can only affect WOT on our ECM's to any affect. The ECM will eventually take back control negating a large percentage of gains made after initial tuning due to it's learning nature.

Buying a new ECU? If he is talking about your OEM ECM, it only needs the TRD reflash for this to be viable. You already have that so just get a decent PNP piggyback like the UniChip one. It can come pre-configured for your setup and can be installed easily by yourself. Tuning beyond that initial setup for anything 10PSI or less will not net much gain, especially when you figure in the ECM learning.

My recommendation if to purchase the NST 9.5 PSI S/C, LW h20, and LW alternator pulley and install with the appropriate belt (also available from NST). Sit back and enjoy. To go a step further, purchase and install the UniChip PNP piggyback. Just give them your current mods and it will be setup pretty darn close to best power right out of the box. The beauty is that you can easily install yourself, save bucks, and have the pride of saying, "I installed it myself". Another caveat is that DIY leads to intimate knowledge of your ride. Knowing the ins and outs, as well as, your vehicle's limits will keep you safe and can put you in the Win column. Even experienced professional racers run into trouble when they take on a new vehicle and try to drive it to the extremes. That Japanese racer aka Tarzan flipped a new race car on his initial run at high-speed.

[Jay666]

I have a few questions on this. I looked up the PMP Unichip piggyback you're talking about. Not exactly sure what it is...

Is this it here? http://www.unichip.us/vehicle/vehicl...6-Scion-tC-24L If it's what I think it is, won't the ECU learn completely around it? I have been warned many times that this is a waste of money because the ECU will learn around it back to the OEM settings. Or are you saying it will be okay unless I tune for less than 10 PSI? Unless I'm thinking of something else that Unichip makes, I'm confused.

I have the Apexi Neo AFC system instead of an FIC piggyback system. What exactly is this PMP Unichip going to do, and can I still run it with my AFC? I assume because the Unichip is an EMS and the Apexi is just an AFC system, I SHUOLD be able to run both, correct? Here is the AFC system I have: http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/?id=5347

I already have all of those NST pulleys and belt. I replaced ALL of them. Including the SC pulley.

I also already have an Intercooler as well.

I also have whatever injectors came with the TRD SC, which I think was 440 CC's?

Bottom line is, if you think I can still safely optimize my WHP based on my mods here and simply need to either re-tune for more PSI and/or add another management system, PLEASE help me out here and I'll do whatever it is that needs to be done.