TRD or aftermarket?

[hebee1982]

well i am a new member here and i just purchased a 2007 scion tc and i am debating on whether i want to install strictly aftermarket parts, TRD, or a little of both. from experience, i am used to installing nothing but aftermarket parts, but i have been out of the scene for a while and i am looking for some suggestions. i just am not sure if spending money on TRD parts is really worth it because it doesn't seem like they are going to give me the preformance i am looking for. what do you guys think?

[navylife59]

Preference. Having all TRD is nice, but so is HKS or somebody else. Mix the parts if ya like. TRD parts are more refined, tend to be on the milder side, and expensive because Toyota has to put their name behind them. That's why the S/C only gives 40WHP.

[Alex8181]

I agree, TRD parts tend to less extreme due to them being offered by the dealerships and if I remember correctly come with a 1 year warranty. I reccomend not to buy parts by brand name and by their actual performance results.

[navylife59]

True that. Bought some parts that I would like to change for somebody elses product.

[hebee1982]

ok thanks. that is what i figured, but i wasn't sure how the reviews were for TRD. i assumed that they would not be able to give me the preformance i want.

[trdmaster]

everything made by TRD is rebadged, nothing from TRD is actually made by them for the tC, but other cars actually have parts made by them, the tC is not a car that TRD makes parts for, even the supercharger, its made by VORTECH, CAI is made by Injen, sway bars are made by hotchkis, shocks are made by bilstein, trust me on this one, i've dont all the research on this, just look at my user name. you pay more but u get to keep ur waranty, and the supercharger can give u more power, but that involves a different pulley, belt, and emanage or something similar, or u will blow ur engine

[navylife59]

Yes, TRD does not make any parts. They may have been fabricators back in their early days (this I only surmize), but since Toyota bought them out they only do R&D, sourcing parts, and such. Aything bought from TRD is going to have a Toyota markup on the price. The TRD exhaust is a one off piece, for sure, costing close to $500 dollars. It is an excellent fit being engineered and tuned specifically for the stock exhaust. That is where it shines. Aftermarket header is where it sucks. The original CAI was made by AEM.

As for the TRD S/C. With the stock exhaust, TRD axleback, and the ZPI 9PSI pulley, the tC has so much low-end torque that traction is a huge problem off the line with the 17" Potenzas. Changing to an aftermarket header and S-pipe gave the obvious change in the powerband upwards to the mid and high RPMs. Now that I have the Greddy Ultimate with MAP installed (no tune yet) I have logged 9.7 PSI wrapping it up to 6431RPM. Somehow the ECM got stuck in closed loop and I had a phenominal amount of power for about a few hours before switching to open loop.

I just recently installed the Greddy and have yet to tune it. The TRD reflash for the S/C and the 440C injectors more than easily pull-off the increased boost; open or closed loop and even on 89 pump gas. My NST 14.5PSI pulley is going to have to wait for a real tune though and water injection. My goal is an everyday, streetable 300WHP. I will run that for a while bfore switching over to a funlly built long-block from ZPI.

[trdmaster]

ur never gonna get 300WHP from a supercharger, only a turbo can do that for u w/o blowing ur engine, i've already seen it happen to my friends car, bad mistake

[navylife59]

Who was your friend? Rippmods has a customer with 320WHP from his TRD S/C on only 12PSI. It is all in the management and careful planning. Watch and learn. I have a few tricks that those guys aren't using. I know that there is a breaking point for the ring lands with too much cylinder pressure. Turbos put a lot of stress on an engine at high boost because the power comes on so fast, too hard. That puts alot of extra stress on internals. S/C slowly build power up thru the entire power band making the rise in power less stressful.

[trdmaster]

i think u've got it the other way around dude, the s/c is already spooling since it runs off the pulley, HELLO!!!, and the turbo needs to spool up so power kicks in at higher RPM's, watch how the EVO sucks so bad cuz of a masive turbo on it, here ill even give u the link, watch and learn my friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6a82a5mYw8

[navylife59]

Ok, if you notice the EVO in the vid is at 30KPH (less than 30MPH) in high gear (5th? I dont know what gears the EVO 8 has). No street car is going to just take off like a rocket. Yes the rental probably has different gearing and obviously lighter weight. A S/C would have performed better here as it builds power in-sync with engine revs. A turbo has to build up alot of energy in the turbine before it can produce appreciable boost, especially large turbos.

Re-read my previous comment.

Turbos put a lot of stress on an engine at high boost because the power comes on so fast, too hard. That puts alot of extra stress on internals. S/C slowly build power up thru the entire power band making the rise in power less stressful.

Where in these statements did I say the contrary to your last remarks. Check again. They are the same.

i think u've got it the other way around dude, the s/c is already spooling since it runs off the pulley, HELLO!!!, and the turbo needs to spool up so power kicks in at higher RPM's

[trdmaster]

turbos and superchargers are not the same, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, u just said in ur last comment that the turbo power comes on so fast, too hard, WRONG, turbo doesnt come in till higher RPM's, i have friends w/ turbos and even a diesel friend w/ a turbo, i also work at a shop, i think i know what im talking about buddy

[navylife59]

Buddy, well thats a no brainer. You need to learn not to mince words when you are purusing others comments. If you will read closely, I stated that the boost on a turbo comes on hard and fast (and it does). It is the mechanical shock that I was discussing. I made no correlation with the boost at higher RPMs.

No matter what RPM the engine is at, it does not matter. What truly matters is the amount of kinetic energy absorbed by the turbine that translates into spinning the impeller. Yes, a standard turbo setup on a standard engine requires that the engine is rotating at a high RPM rate to create the required exhaust energy to sufficient power the turbine. Have you ever heard of compound turbos? They offer more power in the lower power band and nearly eliminate lag.

Heck, you could modify a turbine to accept any high pressure gas to spin the impeller. Think of a Nitrogen bottle set at 4,000 PSI being blasted into that of a modified (downsized) turbine. I can assure you that your engine is far from capable of making that much cylinder head pressure. The tC tech specs standard compression pressure at 189PSI static. Under load that would increase greatly, but no where near 4,000PSI.

Try this, utilize the jet start unit from an F-18 jet. It produces sufficient manifold pressure to start the jet turbines on the fighter. Modified, it could be used to provide the kinetic energy to drive a turbine of your favorite turbo. Sound far fetched? Think about it.

http://www.nybro.com.au/turbines.php
http://simjet.webfokus.dk/Simjet/Simjet.nsf/(Images)/A5C8579CA798E7A9C1256FB900403123/$FILE/Nexus3600.jpg
http://www.rcdon.com/html/gr-1_turbo...e_project.html

If you want to define turbos and superchargers, then you are correct. A supercharger is not a turbo, but a turbo is a supercharger. Look it up. Guess which one was invented first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo

Your turbo, your friend's turbo, your dog's turbo are exactly the same as the TRD (Vortech) S/C. That is to say on the impeller side as they are all Centrifugal compressors. The difference lies in where they get their power. One utilizes potentially wasted kinetic energy and the other utilizes mechanical energy (at a coefficient loss) to create the necessary power needed to spin the impeller.

Schools out

[trdmaster]

wow, okay mr. know it all, i did ask to go all into details but thanks for putting all that info for everyone else to read, i already know this

[navylife59]

Glad that atleast some of this is getting read correctly.

[tanklugz]

i would go aftermarket, as long as its a reputable brand, like greddy, hks, injen for exhaust.