Nitrous question...

[StreetBrawler89]

The only thing I have to say on the nitrous thing is what a wise man once said: Nitrous is like a hot chick with STD's...you wanna hit it, but you're afraid of the outcome.

[turbo-tc]

well i have a question.
i want to run a 75 shot on my turboed tc.
is this okay to do?
im running just the aem fic piggy back system
im about to install my walbro 255.
i have 550cc injectors on as well.
i dont know what plugs to put on the car
either, 1-3 stage colder. i dont know much about engines at all
i just want my car to run safely and efficiently

[bdis3]

what psi are you running?
auto or manual?
hp?
kit?

[turbo-tc]

what psi are you running?
auto or manual?
hp?
kit?

8.5psi
manual
250-270hp
never got dynoed.
street tuned.
and i have the dezod kit
i have nst pulleys as well

[bdis3]

I would run colder plugs, and a 50 wet shot.

Or

You could always run the jets to the front of your intercooler and spray the crap out of that thing

You might want to upgrade your clutch too

[turbo-tc]

I would run colder plugs, and a 50 wet shot.

Or

You could always run the jets to the front of your intercooler and spray the crap out of that thing

You might want to upgrade your clutch too

im just looking to squeeze 300-325hp off my stock motor
safely.
i have the stage 1 act clutch.
is that safe to assume i dont need a new clutch
with the hp i want?


but im thinking on getting the nx express intercooler kit.
and just use c02.
Dezod Motorsports. NX Ntercooler System-5LB Bottle

[StreetBrawler89]

The stock motor will only handle up to about 300hp with boost, adding boost and spray and I would rebuild almost everything, at minimum go -3 plugs. Im over cautious anywas.

[turbo-tc]

The stock motor will only handle up to about 300hp with boost, adding boost and spray and I would rebuild almost everything, at minimum go -3 plugs. Im over cautious anywas.

do you run -3 plugs?
i also heard going to cold on plugs could
make them foul out.
i was told -2 would be fine

[StreetBrawler89]

Like I said I am very overcautious, I generally dont like the spray for anything more than a cooling agent as sugessted by bdis3, Im not running FI or Nitrous at this time so I still have the stock plugs. The reason I suggested the -3 plugs was because if you run 8.5 of extra air in your engine, then you run nitrous(which burns hotter) it basically the same as adding boost.

[turbo-tc]

Like I said I am very overcautious, I generally dont like the spray for anything more than a cooling agent as sugessted by bdis3, Im not running FI or Nitrous at this time so I still have the stock plugs. The reason I suggested the -3 plugs was because if you run 8.5 of extra air in your engine, then you run nitrous(which burns hotter) it basically the same as adding boost.

true true.
im in a process of buying a meth kit
as we speak. ill see how well that holds up on my engine.
also i only have a .6 bar spring in my tial, am i able to still up boost?

ps i heard the nx express intercooler kit just freezes the intercooler which
promotes colder air flow which pushes more fuel in the engine. is this safer than running wet nitrous? im only trying to get an adittion 50-70hp with what i got.

[StreetBrawler89]

That addition of only 50-70 will push your engine past it limits, My advice to you is to by some safety parts with that money, IE a new head, some better valve springs, get a professional tune, a new transmission, maybe new driveshafts. That stage 1 clutch is only just barely an upgrade from stock, might as well buy up a stage 4 and a lightwieght flywheel since your goals are the 300hp club

Also, the intercooler freezer is safer than running nitrous, but it condenses the air going into the actual piston chambers, thus putting more strain on the valvetrain which can cause valve float from all that air being in the chamber, valve float will ruin your day fast quick and in a hurry.

[turbo-tc]

That addition of only 50-70 will push your engine past it limits, My advice to you is to by some safety parts with that money, IE a new head, some better valve springs, get a professional tune, a new transmission, maybe new driveshafts. That stage 1 clutch is only just barely an upgrade from stock, might as well buy up a stage 4 and a lightwieght flywheel since your goals are the 300hp club

Also, the intercooler freezer is safer than running nitrous, but it condenses the air going into the actual piston chambers, thus putting more strain on the valvetrain which can cause valve float from all that air being in the chamber, valve float will ruin your day fast quick and in a hurry.

okay cool thanks for the info!
where could i get a better tranmission for my tc?

[StreetBrawler89]

Here The ClutchMasters Stuff
Flywheel-http://www.killertc.com/product.php?productid=16690
Stage 3 Clutch Kit-http://www.killertc.com/product.php?productid=16692&cat=344&bestseller
Stage 4Clutch Kit w/ Flywheel Option-http://www.clutchmasters.com/shop/?page=shop%2Fflypage&MakeID=32&FromYear=2005&MakeM odelID=33479&AppID=18909

Competition Clutch Hardware

Stage 4 Clutch-http://customizemyscion.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&produc ts_id=54

(12lb)Lightwieght Flywheel-http://customizemyscion.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&produc ts_id=48

(9lb)Ultra Lightweight Flywheel-http://customizemyscion.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&produc ts_id=49

If you live in a very Hilly region go with the 12 pounder, if not the 9 will do you right.

[turbo-tc]

Here The ClutchMasters Stuff
Flywheel-http://www.killertc.com/product.php?productid=16690
Stage 3 Clutch Kit-http://www.killertc.com/product.php?productid=16692&cat=344&bestseller
Stage 4Clutch Kit w/ Flywheel Option-http://www.clutchmasters.com/shop/?page=shop%2Fflypage&MakeID=32&FromYear=2005&MakeM odelID=33479&AppID=18909

Competition Clutch Hardware

Stage 4 Clutch-http://customizemyscion.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&produc ts_id=54

(12lb)Lightwieght Flywheel-http://customizemyscion.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&produc ts_id=48

(9lb)Ultra Lightweight Flywheel-http://customizemyscion.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&produc ts_id=49

If you live in a very Hilly region go with the 12 pounder, if not the 9 will do you right.

i already have a 9 lb flywheel on
ill just upgrade the clutch later on when
expansion on the engine goes into full affect

[turbo-tc]

also this is the clutch i currently have on it.

ACT Street Clutch Kit-tC 05+ (34% clamp load increase, 341 ft/lbs of TQ)

[turbo-tc]

how bout my full engine/transsmission list.

dezod t3/t4 turbo kit 50trim[8.5psi]
aem fic
apexi avcr boost controller
nst pulleys
550cc injectors
9lb flywheel
act clutch
walbro 255 pump
ignalls torque dampner
b&m short throw

[navylife59]

Just a little correction here, valve float is caused by the valve springs inability to control the linear movement of the valve. Excessive RPMs cause harmonic vibrations to oscillate the valve springs. This oscillation cause the valve tip/lifter/rocker arm to loose contact with the camshaft lobe during and after maximum lift. The valve will begin to rotate which will induce distortion stresses on the valve that will make the valve face flutter. This happens regardless of F/I, Nitrous, or N/A application. Watch this video that really shows what is going on here. YouTube - Valve Float

[adi tC]

Thats true, a honda with a folgers coffee can for an exhaust and a park bench drilled in the back draws more attention then turboed tCs from johnny law.

stats from 2008 say that the Scion tC is the second most pulled over car by police. only being beat by the Hummer H3

[turbo-tc]

so i forgot to add now that my car was tuned at 10 psi with 100% meth injection.
pulled out 276/294 on the mustang dyno.
my gf without me knowing, bought me the nx express intercooler kit for my bday a few days ago. im quite mad she did cause i really have no use for it but i guess imma try and get it hooked up and tuned with my set up maybe just lower boost and ill be fine..

[navylife59]

Me thinks that you need to upsize your injectors to support 300WHP reliably. You will be saturating your injectors if you try to overshoot this mark. Less fuel, means less power dictated by the ECM or detonation if you try to push it with the piggyback.

550CC=52.38lb/hour injectors. Using a conservative BSFC of 0.6 it works out to be 279.36BHP at the flywheel with 80% injector duty cycle.

Note: Any duty cycle over 80% is reaching near saturation of the injectors. That leaves no room for the ECM and/or piggyback to, in the presence of knock, to add more fuel to cool the combustion chamber and prevent hotspots on the piston head. All the ECM can do at this point is to pull back timing which might not be enough incurring engine damage.

Calculating 300WHP x 12% (average drivetrain loss) = 336BHP
Plugging the numbers into the equation and you will need 63lb/hr 660cc injectors at 80% to support 300WHP.

Now, if you add a water/meth kit in the mix, this is going to change the BSFC and allow you to support slightly more HP with your 550cc injectors. What exactly it can support is not known w/o an accurate BSFC number. You offset the need for larger injectors by increasing your meth jet size or you can add a secondary injector (550cc/4 will get you to 660cc injector size) if your piggyback supports this. Now you have to look at the rest of your fueling system. Can the fuel rail, stock regulator, and fuel pump handle the required flow rate? You might start looking at converting to a return fuel system with an external, boost based, fuel regulator. No fuel rail kits available on the market yet (my fault, sorry) so your stuck with modifying your OEM one. The OEM fuel pump can't support this demand, so an upgrade is a must. Your 255lph Walbro pump can support up to 100.7lb/hr injectors (4) or 537.07BHP using our current calculations.

3.8lph=1gph

255lph/3.8lph=67.1gph

1 gallon of gasoline=6 pounds (std average)

67.1gph=402.6lb/hr

402.6pph/4 (injectors)=100.7lb/hr injectors.

....So if we take your 550cc injectors and add a secondary 550cc injector, you will have a max (100% duty cycle) flow rate demand of 261.9lb/hr. This leaves you plenty of room on your Walbro pump for upgrades.

Of course, this all means nothing if the ECM does not play nice with your piggyback. Might be time to upgrade to a stand alone.


Reference Calculations: Injector Selection Guide