Air to Liquid intercooler??

[carboncrazytc]

ok i wanted to run some kind of intercooler on my tc im not going to run an air to air intercooler because of the boost you loose so do they make air to liquid kits or basically it is all custom? and is there any loss of boost wiht the air to liquid IC??

[navylife59]

PWR, Vortech, and few others make air-water I/C's but they are rather expensive. They also tend to be more labor intensive to install. For the TRD S/C, you are best served with the water/meth injection route. Snow Performance makes an awesome kit. That is what I am in the process of installing for my 14.5PSI setup. There is also no boost loss which is a major plus for S/C apps.

[carboncrazytc]

cool i wanted to do a valve upgrade on my transmission since im automatic. but zpi doesnt even have a website anymore. so i dont know anyone one who does it. if i get the parts i can do it my self. how much is the kit fro snow performance? and dont you have to keep refilling it? i dynoed my car the other day and it did 207hp and 215 tq on a mustang dyno.

[navylife59]

Yep, ZPI is way gone to oblivion. Not sure why as they were getting pretty successful. I think that they grew way too fast for Kenny to handle it. I also believe that they were in financial trouble as his wife abruptly left the company to work at a Law Firm. While she was only gone a few months, during that period is when things started going drastically wrong with filling orders, customer service, call backs, general availability, and quality of parts. I believe that they were in the middle of a law suit filed by some tC owner. That spells disastor for an upstart company. The fact that it took over 6 months to get my Kaminari CF Spoiler, as well as, 8 months to get my TRD LSD was a definate clue. When they told me the hold up was with Kaminari, I called them. Kaminari stated that they make their tC kits to order and that they would be completed and shipped within 7 business days. Problem was, no order from ZPI was ever issued. Most of this is supposition based on a few facts but the validity of my assessment is sound.

Good numbers on your car. Mustang Dyno's tend to fudge the numbers a lil upwards due to sampling/smoothing alogorythms, but I would not think that it would be too far off as compared to a Dynojet. Impressive torque. What exhaust setup are you running?

The Snow Performance setup as many different options.
Stage 2 Boost Cooler™ Is what you need to order. It comes w/ 2 quart tank that should last a tankful. You can plumb the tC windeshield fluid resevoir which is more than a gallon.

[Ahriman]

Originally Posted by navylife59

Good numbers on your car. Mustang Dyno's tend to fudge the numbers a lil upwards due to sampling/smoothing alogorythms, but I would not think that it would be too far off as compared to a Dynojet. Impressive torque. What exhaust setup are you running?

in my experience, dynojet numbers are usually higher than mustang dyno numbers. of course alot of people take that into consideration and go crazy with corrections and whatnot to try and compinsate for the lower numbers produced on mustang dynos.

[carboncrazytc]

yeah mustang dynos are much tougher than a dynojet dyno. dynojet are much more forgiving.

[navylife59]

Well, I stand corrected. Yep, Looks like my tired butt flipped it around. They fudge down (not up) much like what the GTech gauges do. Both dyno types utilize alogorythms as correcting factors to calculate drivetrain loss. The Mustang adds other factors to simulate the power characteristics as if it were plowing down the track.

Just as in turbos versus superchargers, there are two camps on which one is the best to use and the most accurate. They both have sound reasons. I understand the reasoning behind what Mustang dynos are about. In my humble opinion, I would much prefer to use as little assumptions and guessing as possible. It is much easier to utilize current empirical weather data than it is to setup what track conditions are for a specific vehicle on a specifc day. To me, that is just way too many unknowns. Of course, they could be using that Gore logic (fuzzy math) much in the way that I do my taxes!

Most of the tuner shops (which ain't much) that I know of run the Dynojet. As Kenny Tran put it to me the day when he tuned my ride was basically this, "The dyno is not about making huge power numbers. It is about getting the most power out of a vehicle safely and reliably". My tC on a Dynojet was tuned to 228.4WHP yet only 190.6lbsTQ. I attributed that to the exhaust setup that I was running. The HP figures where right in the range of that I had predicted for my setup. I don't know carboncrazytc's full setup, but aren't you running 7PSI? Adding 10% for the dyno difference with the Dynojet would put your car at the same power level as mine running at 9PSI. The stock TRD S/C setup has been consistently been just shy of 200WHP.


Are we comparing apples to oranges here? There has got to be a reason for this difference. Either my tune is all screwed up (highly doubt that one) or the method that the two dynos extract their data for the power figures makes comparisons between the two vague? I see that both types have there place tuning and evaluating the performance of your vehicle.


I found the following information on user forums that fully supports both sides and why. One thing to note is they are primarily discussing RWD vehicles, not FWD. It is generally accepted that FWD has substantially less powertrain losses.:

Actually...The Mustang Dyno's work slightly different than the Dyno-Jet Dyno's...

Mustang Dyno's apply a load, via eletro-mechanical resistance, then rwhp is calculated based on how your "acceleration/unit of time" of this load occurs...

DynoJet Dyno's simply use a large drum, of know mass, as its rotating resistance...Then rwhp is calculated based on how your "acceleration/unit of time" of the drum occurs...

From what I am told the Mustang dyno gives you a "true" or real world rwhp... i.e. my '00 FRC put down 307 rwhp stock, using 12% drivetrain loss and that is 348 flywheel hp (factory rated 345 hp)...My '02 Z06, on the same Mustang dyno, put down 348 rwhp stock, divide that by 12%, using the same 12% drivetrain loss is 395 fwhp (factory rated at 405 hp)

Dyno Jet Dynos give more of a bragging rights rwhp...

The difference between the two is about 10%...Dyno Jets registering the higher hp readings...

Yours for example...358 rwhp Mustang Dyno vs. 405 rwhp DynoJet...358/405=.884...Pretty close to the 10%...

Last comparison one of the F-body guys posted on LS1.com was the something like the following...338 rwhp Mustang vs. 378 rwhp DynoJet...338/378=.901

On the Mustang dyno that I go to...Stock LS1's in F-body cars dyno in the 280~290 rwhp range...Yet nearly every LS1 F-body that posts rwhp using DynoJet Dynos are in the 310~320 rwhp stock...285/315=0.905

Again...285 rwhp using 12% drivetrain loss gives 324 fwhp, factory rated 320 hp...If you use the DynoJet hp, then you get the following...315 rwhp with 12% drivetrain loss gives 358 fwhp, factory rated 320 hp...So you see, it sound great to think these engines are putting out this kind of power, but it's just not as realistic of a number as you get with the Mustang Dyno...

It really doesn't matter what Dyno you use...Just as long as you keep using the same dyno to check your mods...This will keep variances down to a minimum and tell you truely if any mod is helping or not...

Yet there are instances like these that I have read about.

My first dyno experience was on a dyno jet. My best pull was 336 rwhp corrected. At the fest I dynoed on a mustang and pulled 357 rwhp corected. All I can say is go figure.

Another good read. DynoJet Horsepower Vs. Real World Horsepower - Good Read! [Archive] - Mazda Forums

These are in support of the Dynojets
Mustang dyno vs. Dynojet
Mustang vs Dynojet comparison article - SVTPerformance

Phew! That was alot of typing. For you intrepid readers whom have made it thus far, rejoice. You now have college credits towards an English Lit degree!

[carboncrazytc]

im running the nst 9.5 pulley and the nst lightweight crank pulley and with my new bpv i run a consistent 10lbs of boost even on the hottest days : ) and i have an aem piggyback that is also tuned. im running no cats as well. check out my youtube page

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=heavylifter64

[navylife59]

That makes more sense. Did your ECM get the TRD reflash? I calculate to 227.7WHP Dynojet #'s (+10% from your Mustang pull). At 10PSI it further calculates 237.7WHP (assuming +10WHP/1PSI). Either you have more locked up in tuning or your serpentine belt was slipping. Of course, another dyno run on a different day could net you a different figure.

[carboncrazytc]

im not sure i dont know enough about tuning to tell. im not getting any boost loss so i dont think my belt is slipping. but i am automATIC NOT SURE IF THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE stupid caps lock lol. yes i had the trd reflash.

[Ahriman]

damn navy, way to find the info and break it down for us.

[navylife59]

What can I say, I am a dweeb!