Mid-Pipe

[TBITB]

so i guess a custom midpipe is the best way to go. i appreciate everyone's posts! im pretty new to this so i need all the help i can get. Thanks! Peace!

[ac3 b00gi3]

u got it .. glad i can put a pointer or two in for u

[RacingDaStreetz]

Originally Posted by Imagin

Oh thats only the exhaust side of things lol

But on topic, when Weapon R makes the best header for your car... something is wrong...

Imagin
why do you say that it's wrong for weapon R to have the best header for the scion tc??
I'm asking because I'm looking into gettint them and would like input

[Vmix06]

weapon r is ok but i like the ones from DC but thats the one that i tend to favor most of the time

[Soulbane]

With a custom midpipe it would be an extra pain to get that o2 bung installed wouldnt it?

[RacingDaStreetz]

but isnt it because the weapon r is a TRUE 4-2-1 design that it is superior to the 4-1 design that the ceramic DC headers have?

[bwood87]

Originally Posted by Soulbane

With a custom midpipe it would be an extra pain to get that o2 bung installed wouldnt it?

No it should be fine because it goes on the s-pipe. It is in a rather easily accessible location.

Originally Posted by RacingDaStreetz

but isnt it because the weapon r is a TRUE 4-2-1 design that it is superior to the 4-1 design that the ceramic DC headers have?

This is true. For our car a 4-2-1 set up is more beneficial. When comparing stock manifold to headers though, the headers win because they remove the cat which is a big bottleneck. So any header will get you more HP than stock. I saw a dyno somewhere where they got a little over 10WHP peak gain with AEM CAI, DC headers, and DC sports exhaust. I would say that the headers make up most of that 10WHP peak gain.

[carboncrazytc]

i got 10whp just from my headers on my old scion on a mustang dyno.

[bwood87]

Which type of headers and who made them?

[navylife59]

I concur. As for the DC Sports headers, they are 4-1 in design, even though, they were erroneously promoted as 4-2-1 when they came onto the market. Some resellers still have that information incorrect. The DC Sports are good for a lightweight, no-nonsense track header. They do have some drawbacks as listed:

1. Ceramic coating is not to be confused with a Jet Hot style coating. It is only external and does not adequately cover the piping next to the collector. Mine is 2 years old and has corrosion (rust) in this area. For thin-walled, mild steel, this is bad.
2. The piping is small to be consider an all out drag header.
3. Not equal length piping. #1 one is slightly longer. This is a small amount, though, and does not cause any perceptible equilibrium issues.
4. Piping is formed into rounded triangles, then slip fitted into a collector. It is then TIG welded. This causes a reduction in flow.
5. Same area in the collector has large burrs that cause a further reduction in flow efficiency.
6. There is no lower bracket to support the bottom of the header as in the OEM header. This implies the weight of the header, s-pipe, and O2 sensors onto the (5) header nuts. Add the stress of an impact against the low hanging s-pipe and you could have a potential for header gasket leaking or damaged studs (in a severe case).
7. Bank1Sensor1 AF/R (wideband) sensor is located in the #3 pipe and received AF/R data from one cylinder only. The OEM header samples from all 4 cylinders as it is located in the collector of the 3-way (primary) Cat.

[carboncrazytc]

megan 4-1 stainless and remember i was s/c so i dont know if that made a dif.

[ac3 b00gi3]

with my FULL set-up I/H/E & extra goodies
i put down 173 whp 181 trq

[navylife59]

Not too shabby.

Originally Posted by carboncrazytc

megan 4-1 stainless and remember i was s/c so i dont know if that made a dif.

That would be correct. The S/C build max boost at redline and that happens to be where a 4-1 makes its best gains. Of course, now your turbo and eat'n every one's lunch

[carboncrazytc]

lol thats what im hoping : ) i get it back monday finally after like 2 weeks : (

[navylife59]

Be sure to get the photos posted. We want to see that sweet ride. I will see about getting the Admins to give you and ac3 b00gi3 "Killa" status.

[Soulbane]

Originally Posted by navylife59

Be sure to get the photos posted. We want to see that sweet ride. I will see about getting the Admins to give you and ac3 b00gi3 "Killa" status.

So navy, since the S/C works linearly with the engine's output would that mean a 4-2-1 header set up would actually be less useful on a S/C engine as opposed to a turbo?

[navylife59]

Not unless your all out drag racing. Ever hear of not putting all your eggs in one basket or lining all your ducks in a row? If all of your parts only build power in the section of the engine's useable RPM band, then that is only what you will get. If your looking for a dyno queen or all out drag, then doing so will net you the most HP. Problem is, not many people keep their motor around redline. What you need and want is a broader powerband. At lower RPM, a S/C is not making much boost. In fact, you can just consider it dead weight, therefore, your motor needs to be making its own power to compensate. A 4-2-1 will lower your torque (curve compared to a 4-1) allowing you to keep a flatter torque curve till the S/C starts carrying the load. You may loose a small amount of HP at redline but it will be trivial. It is about torque, not HP, on the street IMO. If your cruising at NASCAR speeds then HP is what you want.

[carboncrazytc]

that would be sweet i might have to find a sticker that says killa status lol

[carboncrazytc]

ill be sure to take tons of pics im going to help finish her up tommorrow and dyno it so ill have some pics and numbers hopefuly " fingers crossed " by tommorrow night.

[Soulbane]

That's what I was saying.

having the 4-2-1 Header broaden my powerband so I can compensate for minimal S/C boost at low RPMs.

Auto-X and Touge all require you to be shifting out constantly, meaning you wont remain at red line for long. Making the top end loss, trivial.

Thanks Navy.