Front suspension noise - wheel bearing??

[WOT2000]

Hey Everyone... my wife's 2007 tC has a rumbling or grinding noise in the front suspension, seems localized to the passenger side. It's mostly noticeable during low speed braking. It does not change when cornering, nor does having it in-gear vs neutral affect it. the car is all stock -- no suspension, brake or wheel mods.

I pulled the wheels and checked the brakes & stuff. Rotors & pads evenly worn, plenty of pad material, calipers float freely, CV and other boots are all intact.

I suspect it's a bad wheel bearing, but that seems un-Toyota like on a 27,000 mile car. I tried to "wiggle" the wheel with it jacked up but I can't feel any slop in it, like bearings sometimes cause.

Has anyone had similar noises, or bearing failures? Car is under warranty, but I like to know what's wrong before I let the hacks at the stealership mess with it.

(Doh! Sorry about typo in subject -- won't let me edit it!)

[navylife59]

If it was the wheel bearing, it would grind regardless of braking. Did you spin the wheel while it was jacked. Did you try to turn the spindle back and for to check the hub bearing for any rough spots? Does this happen while turning, going straight, or both? If only during braking, it could still be the pads. What about the wear tab indicator? Was there any brake fluid on the pads/rotors? Brake fluid contamination can cause brake chatter.

An easy check for a bad CV joint, drive the car backwards slowly in a sharp turn; repeat for opposite turn. Don't use your brakes. If there is any clicking or chattering, you have a bad outer CV joint.

You are still under warranty so let them deal with it.

[WOT2000]

If it was the wheel bearing, it would grind regardless of braking. Did you spin the wheel while it was jacked. Did you try to turn the spindle back and for to check the hub bearing for any rough spots?

Thanks, that helps. I didn't try spinning or turning while the wheels were off the ground; I'll try that tomorrow. The noise is always present, it's just most pronounced when braking. There isn't any pad contamination, and I hit all the brake parts with cleaner while they were apart.

[navylife59]

If it is constant, it could very well be the hub bearing but I would do the CV joint check to rule that out. There is a support bearing for the RH Front Drive Shaft Assembly. It is located on the backside of the engine block which puts it near the front passenger wheel.

[WOT2000]

Late follow up... We took the car into the dealer for their diagnosis. They checked it out, claimed to find no mechanical problems, and blamed the problem on "cupped tires" and those terrible low-profile tires (which, excuse me, are OEM and what dang near every car comes with these days.)

I consider myself a tire expert; I know what cupping is, looks like, and is caused by. I saw none on these tires. In fact my tread depth gauge says they're very evenly worn.

So we're basically stuck with a $200+ gamble on a new pair of tires that I don't think are needed, to prove it one way or the other. TireRack has the Dunlop "SP Sport Signature" for $96/ea that is the leading contender.

On the good side: the dealer didn't charge us for their diagnosis, had lots of free coffee, and took care of the required state inspection.

[navylife59]

They grasp at anything to not warranty a Toyota. Now they are doing with Scions. Try pulling the speed sensor and look inside the cavity for debris.

[WOT2000]

Try pulling the speed sensor and look inside the cavity for debris.

You mean the ABS sensors? Hadn't thought of that one...

[Redneck4csa]

those terrible low-profile tires (which, excuse me, are OEM and what dang near every car comes with these days.)

I consider myself a tire expert

If you are a tire expert you would know that any low-profile tire will perform better than say a 65 series. In corners, the sidewall does not have the room to flex as much which means less body roll and less understeer (to a point). I'm not downing you, I'm just saying that if we didn't have the low-profile tires from the factory, the car wouldn't handle anywhere near what it does stock. Now...

[WOT2000]

If you are a tire expert you would know that any low-profile tire will perform better than say a 65 series. In corners, the sidewall does not have the room to flex as much which means less body roll and less understeer (to a point).

I understand what you're saying. But it's the wife's car. She bought it for many reasons, but handling was pretty far from the top of the list. I've actually thought about downsizing to a 16" wheel & tire to reduce long term tire costs.

I also firmly believe the huge wheels that manufacturers are equipping on nearly every car these days are for looks only. The added weight increases unsprung mass which is detrimental to both handling and ride. And increases sale price and replacement tire costs. Look at cars set up for track or autocross use -- they go for the smallest lightest wheels that clear their brake package; a taller sidewall can also conform to a bumpy or rough track better, keeping more fo the contact patch in, uhh, contact more of the time.

[Redneck4csa]

This needs to be moved to another thread for further discussion.

[navylife59]

If ya'll want. Say, did you ever figure out what the noise was?

[ArtursBoy]

I don't have, or have had this problem with my tc. I did however had this problem with a previous honda accord (except that instead of it being the front wheel, it was the back wheel). I am not sure if the tc has this, but on my accord there was a metal shield behind the disc brake to protect it from debris. Somehow, a couple smalls rocks managed to get inside the shield, causing them to make scraping sounds randomly, all it took was removing the small rocks to solve the problem. Like I said, I haven't looked behind the disk brakes on my tc, so I dont know if it has this shield, but for wheatever is worth, I thought this could help.

[Komodo]

Late follow up... We took the car into the dealer for their diagnosis. They checked it out, claimed to find no mechanical problems, and blamed the problem on "cupped tires" and those terrible low-profile tires (which, excuse me, are OEM and what dang near every car comes with these days.)

I consider myself a tire expert; I know what cupping is, looks like, and is caused by. I saw none on these tires. In fact my tread depth gauge says they're very evenly worn.

So we're basically stuck with a $200+ gamble on a new pair of tires that I don't think are needed, to prove it one way or the other. TireRack has the Dunlop "SP Sport Signature" for $96/ea that is the leading contender.

On the good side: the dealer didn't charge us for their diagnosis, had lots of free coffee, and took care of the required state inspection.

What ever happen to this problem? I have the same problem, and my dealer told me the same thing. Did you get new tires and had the car realigned?

[metynis]

I just bought an 06' tC with 63K miles and I hear what seems to be wheel bearing noise. The dealership I bought it from said they'd "make it right" but they ended up just telling me it's the Z rated tires. I don't believe it.

[navylife59]

It is possible that the tires are making that noise depending on the tread block pattern and overall stiffness of the tire. It can also be caused by improper alignment (toe-in/toe-out). Jack up the front/rear (offending wheel) of the car. Now rotate the tires and inspect the tread block for any uneven wear.

To check your wheel bearing, go to the offending wheel. Put the trans in neutral and try free spinning the wheel.

Note: For the front wheels only, even in neutral, that wheel axle is still connected to the other axle in the differential. That will create some friction.

What you are looking for is difficulty in movement. You will feel resistance, but it should be smooth. It will not free-wheel. You can go to the other side and rotate that wheel and it should be the same unless there is a bearing problem. Any roughness or clicking is definite bearing and/or race excessive wear or possible failure.

Note: The steering lock should be engaged for this next step.

Now grab the tire at the 9 and 3 o'clock positions. Push/pull alternately, several times as if trying to twist the tire upon it's axis. Now do the same at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions. What you are paying attention to is any play and/or clicking.

Note: Depending on tyre type/size, there might be some give which might be interpreted falsely as bearing play. Alternatively, you can grab just the wheel itself but you will have to exert more strength to push/pull the wheel.

[metynis]

Well, I just inspected the brakes and bearings. I didn't perform the twisting motion you suggested because I checked them before I saw your reply (thanks). Never the less I did use a long screw driver as a stethoscope and I do hear some minor noise from the passenger side CV axle idler bearing. Actually not sure if it is the idler bearing or the CV joint immediately adjacent to it. Of course the noise did not seem severe but you know how these types of noises tend to be much louder under load.

By the way, the noise is exactly as WOT2000 described at the beginning of this forum.

Now I just got to get the dealership to admit it and fix it before the 2 month 2000 mile warranty is up.

I know I can fix it but I shouldn't have to. I just want to enjoy the car I just paid for.

Peace

[navylife59]

Good luck and be firm. Toyota Dealers seem to not want to do warranty repair work for some reason. Maybe Toyota is slow on making payment restitution to the Dealerships? I even catch flack even though I have the uber expensive extended warranties. Let us know what the outcome of the repair is.

[WOT2000]

What ever happen to this problem? I have the same problem, and my dealer told me the same thing. Did you get new tires and had the car realigned?

Hi, I'm the original poster on this one. Over seven months, the factory tires had enough additional miles and wear on them that my cheap a$$ finally conceded to buying a new set. Got the Dunlops from Tire Rack

Short answer: Noise Gone Inspecting the tires off the car, there was STILL no evidence of visible wear or any problems that would cause the noise. These were the OEM Bridgestone Turanza EL400-02. I think this is just a case of really crappy tires. Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer has installed such things, and Bridgestone seems to make lots of them (like the RE92 on so many cars.) Tire Rack's survey puts them 2nd from worst and I have to agree.

Anyways... noise gone and wife happy.

[navylife59]

All of this time it was just tires? Now, what would have been the easiest to replace to troubleshoot? Tyres. Right? What did the Dealership refuse to change out? Tyres. I should have pointed you towards the the tyres as Toyota seems to have purchased factory seconds off the wholesale shelf. Your description of the problem could have very well been a mechanical problem. Hard to beat hands on troubleshooting.

[GovTC]

Speaking of noises coming from the front of tc. Is there any myth to the Toyota Creek. Everytime I get out of my driveway it sound like well a creek. I don't have a steep driveway it is raised about 1/2 above the payment. Most of the time it makes the noise when i exit my driveway front right tire first or it will make it when i back up turn the wheel doesnt matter direction and go forward. This is my first Toyota that I have owned. But I am no stranger to the noise. My friend had an old Toyato Tacoma and it would make the noise as well. He took it to the dealer and they couldnt find anything wrong. Just wondering if this is a signature that Toyota uses or is there something wrong.