Emergency brake question

[tfs08SWtC]

Lately I have noticed that when accelerating from a stop or rolling stop the e-brake light comes on in the dash cluster... stays on for maybe 5 seconds then turns off. Anybody ever had this happen to them? I checked the manual and it says if that light comes on and the e-brake isn't engaged to pull over and call Scion immediately. No noise or anything, and before anyone asks, yes the e-brake is down all the way and not close to being engaged. Any input? Seems odd... a short in the wire maybe? Or is this actually serious?

On a side note... anybody know how long the brakes on these cars has been known to last? I'm going on 42k (2008) and still not hearing any noise from them whatsoever.

Thanks!

[navylife59]

It is not an E-Brake that we have on our cars. It is considered a parking brake. The handbrake is only adequate at holding the car stationary. Try to stop your car with it on a flat road doing 20MPH. OK, back to the light in question. There are two warning lights on the gauge cluster one in yellow "ABS" and the red "BRAKE". The ABS is a separate system from the regular brakes. The ABS only accentuates the normal braking system, not supplant it. The "BRAKE" light comes on not only for the parking brake being out of the stowed (fully down) position but for low brake fluid level.

Often case is your brake fluid level is slightly low so that the float switch actuates the light as the fluid level changes from the g-forces acting upon it during stops and starts. You can check your fluid level under the hood. The white reservoir with the black cap on the driver's side has a "Max" and "Low" level marks on the side. With the car on a level surface, the fluid level should be between those two marks. If not, you should replace with the correct fluid as stated in the Owner's Manual. If your car is a manual, the clutch slave cylinder shares the same reservoir as the brake. You need to investigate as to what has been the cause of the fluid loss.

There is a chance that the parking brake cable tension is set too tightly. As the car comes to a hard stop or quick takeoff, the body flexes slightly. The brake cable tension maybe sufficient enough to pull the brake handle up against the detent allowing the parking brake switch to make contact. You need to have the tension checked properly.

[tfs08SWtC]

Thanks for the advice, yea didn't really think that the red BRAKE light had a dual purpose. Never had a car do that before... I ended up talking with the dealer this morning and they said exactly what you did. The brake fluid might be low, or the brakes may need to be changed because the calipers are using more than normal when compressing onto the rotors and then as the reservoir fills back up, the light goes off. I checked the level in the reservoir and it is right between the max and low marks... so maybe that means its time for a pad change. Dealer is going to do a complimentary brake check tomorrow.

[navylife59]

I forgot all about the pads wearing down causing your fluid level to lower. Typically, the pads will make noise before the fluid level should be low enough to cause the light to come on. The OEM pads last a good long time but if you are over 50K miles, they should be looked at. Glad you have a grasp on the issue. No brakes is not a fun time.

[tfs08SWtC]

I would think they would be making noise before the fluid level would be low enough as well. But it is winter now and I don't have my windows down to hear the noise. Sure sometimes, they squeak or whatever, but it's never been a constant noise. I have 42k on the car at the moment. Is the noise the pads make pretty loud and noticeable?

[connman429]

I can't speak for the OEM tC brakes, as I am only half way through the factory set. Generally speaking, the wear indicator is a small metal tab; the indication is a constant squeal of metal on metal that makes a mechanically-inclined driver grind their molars to dust. You can't miss it unless you drive withthe radio cranked all the time. You can check the pads yourself without removing the wheels. You just need a flashlight and an inspection mirror. If you don't have a mirror, borrow a woman's compact powder case. Those work great in a pinch. If you are below 1/4" of pad left, you may want to get some fresh pads on there.

[tfs08SWtC]

Ok, I figured as much that it is the same type of system as most brake indicators. Definitely not making a constant noise like that yet... so there must be enough meat on those pads for now, but it might be getting close causing the reservoir to hit the LOW level when braking. We shall see what they say tomorrow. Thanks!

[tfs08SWtC]

So the dealer said the fronts are worn down to about 3 mm... which is normal for the amount of miles I have (just over 42k) and the backs have half left at 6 mm. Guess it is getting close to doing a front pad swap for me soon... they wanted $250 for just the fronts. Um, no thanks. That's ridiculous.

One question I have is should I get the rotors cut or let them be? The guy said that the rotors were fine and they can be cut 2-3 times before they are no good...

[connman429]

There's a few factors to consider there. I would start by running a finger radially along the rotor. If there are a lot of hills and valleys, then your pads will have a reduced surface contact and your brakes won't be as effective, especially when wet. You want as flat a surface as you can get.

If you don't like the way they feel, then find a local machinist in the yellow pages and have him check your rotors for run-out. It's been a while since I have had somebody else do it (I have access to the equipment and do it myself), but it used to run around 20 bucks if they didn't have to cut them, 40 bucks if they did need a cut. I advise against going to a tire shop unless you know and trust them, because generally they have very few truly qualified personnel. I don't trust a 19-yr old with 6 weeks of training around my brakes.

If it feels satisfactory using the calibrated finger method, then you really don't want them cut. The thinner the rotor, the higher the chance of over-heating and warping during heavy braking, plus a higher chance they will need to be cut/replaced during subsequent brake changes.

[tfs08SWtC]

Never done the "finger method." I will have to try that out for sure. It makes sense with both comments. I'll have to see if I can feel anything running my finger on the surface around the rotor. Do you mean make circular motions on the surface or to just run your finger along the surface while following the rotor?

I know certain auto parts stores cut rotors too... I've done it before on previous cars. Thanks for the advice! I'll probably do it in the next couple thousand miles. Still not hearing the noise they are supposed to make when down far enough.

[connman429]

Run your finger from the outside to the inside, perpindicular to the pad travel. If you feel narrow high spots, that means your perfectly flat new pad is running against this:

VVVVVVVVVVV

That means less surface area of the pad is contacting, thus less friction and stopping power. It also means premature pad wear until the pad matches the grooves.

[tfs08SWtC]

Got it, makes total sense. You want it to feel as flat as possible... Will definitely do that because taking the rotors to get cut is a PITA since I don't have a second car to drive somewhere. HAHA